06-09-2004, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2004, 07:37 PM by glen.)
Hi everyone,
I just found out Fisheries Victoria are trying to basically close the recreational abalone fishery in Victoria. They have released a Regulatory Impact Statement and are seeking public submissions.
The changes include:
ââ¬Â¢ reduction of daily bag and possession limits applying to recreational abalone fishing in marine waters of central Victoria (from Cape Otway to Arch Rock in Venus Bay, including Port Phillip Bay) from 10 to 4;
ââ¬Â¢ closure of marine waters of central Victoria to recreational abalone fishing for all but 30 days of each year;
The RIS document is attached.
Submissions are sought by 27 October. I encourage interested persons to make a submission.
The RIS is misleading because it says the fishery will be open for 30 days but the regulations describe the closed season as follows:
"The whole year,
excluding any period
specified by a
fisheries notice under
section 152 of the Act"
So in other words, the 30 day open season is not guaranteed. The fishery is effectively closed unless Fisheries feel they want to open it. In my view the RIS is totally misleading and never should have been released.
this is just gonna encourage illegal abalone poaching. <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> dumb ass's.
sory guys i have to ask the question(hope not to offend) is a total closure for a fixed period of time such a bad thing.Here in on the mid north coast of nsw we have a blanket ban on the taking of abalone its been in force for a while.We were at a point where legal abs were as scarce as hens teeth now on each dive abalone is getting more and more prolific.Sure poaching will be a problem as it was here 1st off but if vic fisheries are on the ball and hand out heavy fines and confiscation of gear ie boats, tanks,snorkells etc and publish such offenders poaching will not completely stop but it will reduce(how many people are exceeding their daily limit already?).Sure we get idiots here we see on dives taking the abs but we report them(rego nums etc to nsw fisheries) hope people down your way will do the same thing.Anyway once again i hope i didnt offend anyone with my difference of opinion cheers lbg freak! Ps a matter of interest if anyone is interested our ban extends on sealrocks to the north to sydney in the south <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
mate for all i care shut the whole abalone fishing season down. but face facts there always will be those doing illegally. i agree with the reduction in bag limits but will people stick to em?
my main gripe is that fisheries victoria have a massive commercial fishery in victoria which they are protecting and they don't give a stuff about the recreational fisherman taking a few abs. The fact is that the total harvest by legitimate recreational anglers is no threat to abalone whatsoever. it might be in the order of 2-3% of the total harvest.
fisheries victoria have not invested enough money or staff in enforcement and so of course poaching goes unchecked. i have fished regularly in Victoria for the last 30 years and have never once been inspected by a fisheries officer. fishos (fisheries officers) are as rare as hen's teeth!
some people might say "what do i care?...i don't eat abalone!" but there is nothing to stop Fisheries Victoria from closing more fisheries due to their incompetence. Maybe they will one day close the recreational rock lobster fishery? or even the recreational squid fishery because they are unable to catch poachers of squid.
fisheries enforcement is not rocket science. if there is no one to apprehend the criminals they will continue their illegal activities. in one of the most highly taxed countries in the world we should have a few dollars to invest in protecting fish resources and ensuring they can be accessed by legitimate users.
i was amazed in new zealand at how the approach to fisheries management is so different to here. when you buy a licence in new zealand you effectively earn a slice of the fishery and it is the responsibility of the Fish and Game NZ body to assist you in accessing the fish resource. fisherman feel they are a "client" of the Fish and Game and have a real voice. They can even vote for who should represent them on the fisheries council. i think fisheries management in victoria has been more about screwing anglers rather than assisting them.
just my 2 cents worth. happy to hear contrary opinions.
Quote:some people might say "what do i care?...i don't eat abalone!" but there is nothing to stop Fisheries Victoria from closing more fisheries due to their incompetence. Maybe they will one day close the recreational rock lobster fishery? or even the recreational squid fishery because they are unable to catch poachers of squid.
as it becomes all too difficult for fisheries to enforce bag/size limits, they will take the easier approach and just ban it outright.... all recreational anglers should be VERY concerned. <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' />
Whether the abalone bag limit is 10 or 4 a poacher has made up their mind that they are going to break the law and exceed the limit anyway so how the reduced bag limit will help tackle the poaching problem is beyond me,... :blink: <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
Sorry glen i see your point totally.But bat least up here abs are closed to pro fisherman to.My opinion is if theres goin to be a ban on a public resource let it be a total ban .Ban the pros too.If pros down your way are anything like up here they should all be banned they dont give a damn about anything other then liningb their own pockets and do more damage each then all amateurs combined!!.These people that say what should i care are the same people that help vote politians in to power in turn let stuff like this happen.Things need to be fair for all anyway ive been on my soap box for long enough cheers lbg freak <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
[color="blue"]Restrictions On Recreational Abalone Fishing Unfair: Hall[/color]
New restrictions on recreational fishers will not solve the State Governmentââ¬â¢s problems with illegal abalone poaching, according to Gippsland MP Peter Hall.
By Peter Hall - 8th November 2004
[color="gray"]For the full article click on link below -[/color]
31-05-2005, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2005, 01:56 PM by glen.)
FROM THE MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE
DATE: Thursday, May 26, 2005
NEW ABALONE CATCH LAWS TO CRACK DOWN ON THEFT
The Bracks Government has announced the latest move to protect Victoria's recreational abalone stocks by cracking down on abalone thieves.
The Minister Responsible for Fisheries, Bob Cameron, said there was increasing concern about the decline of abalone stocks on recreational reefs within easy reach of metropolitan Melbourne, due to illegal fishing activity.
"The main features of the new controls are the reduction of abalone catch limits and the introduction of a closed season for central Victorian waters (from Cape Otway to Venus Bay including Port Phillip Bay)," Mr Cameron said.
Victoria is home to one of the world's last sustainable wild abalone fisheries.
Raids conducted last week by Fisheries Officers from the Department of Primary Industries (DPI) found that most of the 500kg of abalone meat seized ââ¬â with a retail value of more than $120,000 ââ¬â was taken by thieves pretending to be recreational abalone fishers.
"Thieves masquerading as legitimate recreational abalone fishers have been flouting existing laws to make big profits. They are destroying abalone stocks for future generations" Mr Cameron said.
"This illegal activity threatens the existence of the entire fishery, including the pursuits of legitimate commercial and recreational fishers.
"The new controls strike a balance between maintaining a sustainable abalone fishery, supporting a legitimate commercial industry while providing continuing opportunities for recreational fishing.
"In particular, they address the immediate threat of illegal activity to abalone stocks in central Victorian waters.
"By reducing the bag and possession limit in these waters to five, multi-tripping becomes less lucrative and more time consuming for abalone thieves."
The Government has undertaken extensive consultation through the Regulatory Impact Statement process to develop the new rules.
"The Bracks Government is making the decisions to protect Victoria's future. We're listening and working with all Victorians", Mr Cameron said.
Mr Cameron said the changes, which will come into effect on 1 September 2005 included:
÷ Removal of the requirement to cut the meat of recreationally caught abalone in all Victorian waters at the request of recreational abalone divers;
÷ Introduction of a permanent closure of the recreational abalone fishery in central Victorian waters except for 60 nominated days each year;
÷ Reduction of the recreational abalone daily bag limit and possession limit in central Victorian waters from 10 to 5 per person;
÷ Removal of the current Statewide seasonal closure on the recreational take of greenlip abalone. This is replaced by the introduction of a permanent ban on the recreational and commercial take of greenlip abalone in Port Phillip Bay;
÷ Removal of the existing Statewide boat/vehicle limit of 50 abalone;
÷ Retention of the current recreational abalone daily bag limit and possession limit of 10 per person for all Victorian waters other than in, on or near central Victorian waters.
Mr Cameron said that each year DPI would work closely with groups which represent recreational abalone fishers to determine which 60 days should be open for abalone fishing in central Victorian waters.
"DPI will monitor the impact of the new rules to ensure that changes in central Victorian waters do not push illegal activity to areas further to the east or west," Mr Cameron said.
The black market trade of abalone is an organised and lucrative industry. Illegal abalone can be bought for $40 per kilogram, has a retail value of $240 per kilogram and is sold in restaurants for between $80 and $120 per serve.
Mr Cameron said the changes to recreational abalone fishing regulations were the latest step by the Bracks Government to crack down on abalone crime. Previous measures have included:
÷ A new indictable offence for trafficking in priority species including abalone (with maximum penalties of 10 years jail or a fine of $120,000);
÷ An increase of 30 per cent in the number of Fisheries Officers
÷ New search and arrest powers for Fisheries Officers;
÷ A Statewide 24-hour phone line ââ¬â 13-FISH ââ¬â to report illegal fishing activity.
[color="blue"]Comment - At least the regulations are not as severe as they originally proposed. The bag limit if 5 (not 4) and there are 60 (not 30) days to fish.[/color]
I agree with you Glen, although I will be interested as to which 60 days are the 'legal' ones for taking abs. Hopefully it is not the months of July and August, for example!
It seems like the recent Victorian Chinese restaurant crackdown has a lot to do with these changes, since they identified that most of this abalone was taken by rec fishermen.
As has been said many times before, the solution is increased policing of the fishery, not reduced bag limits and season closures for genuine recreational abalone fishers.
01-06-2005, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2005, 04:53 PM by glen.)
I think it is interesting to note that these regulations took well over 3 years to make. I think it demonstrates that the regulations were hard to justify.
The previous regulations were perfectly workable if Fisheries Victoria chose to enforce them adequately. But they failed to do that and this is why we now have depleted stocks and stiffer regulations.
01-06-2005, 11:13 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2005, 11:18 PM by glen.)
hi chicken,
chances are the 60 fishing days will be in summer and hopefully mostly on weekends. well i prefer weekends but i am sure others who work on the weekend will have a different preference.
these new regulations are not yet in place. The media release said they will take effect on 1 September 2005.
I dont reckon a blanket ban will do anything, because I dont think its the legal 10 per person that are threatning the ab stocks. Me an a mate got our 10 each at mornington one weekend then only 2 weeks later there wasnt a single ab there. The following week in the paper there's some article about poaching in the area. It seems to me that what difference does it make taking 10 or 20 abs when the poachers take thousands?
All the new laws will do is piss of recrecreational divers!
Also I'll just add that I agree that I think the fisheries in victoria are more about taxing the anglers than protecting the fisheries... I've never seen an inspector either!
The poachers AND the professionals take 1000 times more than legitimate rec. fishermen ever would (or could) take <img src='http://www.squidfish.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':th' />
And I could scarcely believe my eyes, but I saw my first ever fisheries inspectors last weekend - I was fishing from a kayak about 500m off Beaumaris (PPB), and two inspectors turned up on jetskis, checked about 5 of the 50+ boats in the area (not me though), and took off again. The coastguard also showed up and checked some boats for safety gear. Despite the fact that not many boats were inspected, it was good to at least see a presence on the water.
I would urge anyone who sees anything illegal, be it abalone, exceeded squid bag limits, or whatever, to call 13FISH (133 474). Fisheries can't be everywhere at once, but if you call this number, and provide details (and car rego#s if possible) they will (supposedly) turn up and take action. I think this is where some of our license fees go.
Just to let people know that VRFish and SDFV are looking to try and block this legislation from coming through. There is a bit more than meets the eye to this which includes Fisheries misrepresenting poaching statistics, "scientific" recreational abalone surveys which include waters dry at low tide, extending the closing date of the RIS to 7 December but not telling the public (bet no one told you guys), lack of cooperation, commercial influences, etc. By the way the number of Fisheries Officers has doubled to 80 and still we get hit over the head with unfair enforcement laws.
Oddly enough the 5 abalone bag limit and sixty day seasons is also what was proposed in multiple 'form letter' RIS submissions from people purporting to be recreational fishermen but written by commercial interests.
To cut a long story short a couple of us will be meeting with Freedom of Information officers Tue 5 July in an attempt to expose a bit more before following other courses of action. We were also told from the very first Fisheries meeting we (recreationals only) would have to cop this new change in one form or another (consultation process???) and this was even before the RIS was released to the public. However, with a September 1st 2005 deadline fast approaching it will interesting to see if this is released as a Fisheries Notice and therefore bypass the Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee. They can review and prevent legislation from going through on the basis of "unduly trespasses on rights and liberties of the person previously established by law", "is inconsistent with principles of justice and fairness" or "has been prepared in contravention of any of the provisions of this Act or of the guidelines with respect to the statutory rule and the contravention is of a substantial or material nature". Wish us luck on your behalf.
29-06-2005, 11:16 PM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2005, 11:21 PM by glen.)
Hi Ian,
A few comments. If they extended the public consultation period that is a good thing. They have no obligation to do that at all if they do not wish to. So that doesn't give you much of an argument at all.
Second, you cannot just meet with freedom of information officers and ask for "leads". You need to ask for specific documents. And they need to be documents that do not fall within one of the long list of exemptions for NOT releasing a document. You might like to take a closer look at the FOI Act before you meet with them.
If you suspect that "form letters" were received by commercial interests then you could ask the FOI officers to provide access to those submissions (with personal information removed). However, if there are scores of submissions then the request might be classes as a "voluminous request" (i.e. too big) and will be denied.
You could approach the Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee (SARC) and ask them to pay special attention to these Regulations. However, even if they decide the regulations were not made with inadequate consultation or that they are inherently unfair, it is very unlikely they would recommend that the regulations would be disallowed by Parliament. Look at their website and the Alerts they publish. The worst that generally happens is that they send a letter to the relevant Minister and point out the flaws. This has no practical affect other than embarassing the Minister.
So basically what I am saying, is that the regulations will be made, regardless of your efforts. You may however be able to stir things up a bit and cause a bit of embarassment which may perhaps be a valuable achievement in itself.
Appreciate your comments and I will try to expand a little more on 12 months effort while keeping it brief.
You're right that extending the public consultation period is a good thing, provided they promote it openly to the public and not just to reopen it (after closing date?) to allow for an influential and what I believe very pro-commercial submission to get in. Hyperthetically speaking of course until we can confirm this under FOI.
We have already been in contact with the respective FOI officers as part of our looking for "leads" and have some success already. Keeping in mind they are also there to aid to applicants.
We are expecting some of the value of FOI to be in the absence of documents (or documented evidence), as the case may be here.
With commercial interests supplying "form letters" under the disguise of recreational fisherman, we have a signed original and already asked Fisheries for these to be indentified.
This will all hopefully contribute for a case for SARC, to whom we have already made intial contact.
As yet we (VRFish and SDFV) have not had a written formal request from Fisheries to choose the 60 days but it is coming. When it arrives a notice will be put up on the web page [url="http://www.sdfv.org.au/"]http://www.sdfv.org.au/[/url] to allow everyone (including squidfish members) to have a say and contribute. Also on the web, you can also expect to see a disclaimer, that while it is necessary to help choose "open" days as part of the process, we absolutely reject the season and bag limit regultations to be imposed on us.
I'm expecting an uphill battle but will keep you posted.
' /> dumb ass's.
